Small size, low lux camera
 

Hi,
I've been looking for a small size, low lux, and long distance B/W
security camera and came across this web site: www.spycameras.com:
HRC-400A: 3-8mm lens, audio. 0.01 lux. 99$. indoor.
WBC-300C: 8-16mm lens, no audio. 0.2 lux. 149$. outdoor.
These are tiny cameras with low lux and have optional lenses. Does
anyone have experience with this company "spycameras" or any
suggestion regarding alternatives?
Thanks in advance!
-- Tobert
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Yes indeed.  The US Department of Justice has experience with them.
The DOJ has been confiscating these from distributors and manufacturers.
Surprise raids were carried out against several of the largest CCTV distributors
in the US.  Inventory was taken and booked as evidence.  United States code
doesn't allow anyone other than a police agency to even possess covert cameras
with audio listen-in capability.  Using them to surreptitiously rd audio
without the knowledge and consent of everyone in the room without a warrant is a
felony.
Suggested alternatives?  Nope.
BTW, your post appears to be an ad rather than a query.  I'm not saying it is
such but it has the look about it.
toebert wrote in message:

:
:
I've been looking for a small size, low lux, and long distance
: B/W security camera and came across this web site

: xxx.snip.xxx
:
HRC-400A: 3-8mm lens, audio. 0.01 lux. 99$. indoor. WBC-300C:
: 8-16mm lens, no audio. 0.2 lux. 149$. outdoor. These are tiny
: cameras with low lux and have optional lenses. Does anyone have
: experience with this company "spycameras" or any suggestion
: regarding alternatives

?

toebert   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation toeb...@my-deja.com - 2000/03/17 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automationd05f1980be7aebb3" Individual Message Show original All I need are two cameras that I can place behind the window or
under the shingle to monitor the front entry and the street. I do not
care to use the bulky standard CCTV camera or bullet camera that will
make my house look like a prison. I'm looking for a camera that has
pleasant appearance.
I planned to hook up a pair of these kind of camera to X10's wireless
video sender/iver. Then we can monitor the entry and front on TV.
Other than the web site I mentioned, I also found
www.internetelectronics.com has some very good products at reasonable
price. Is there other store offer similar products at similar price
range?
X10 could have saved me all these trouble if they offer an optional
B/W CCD camera with 0.01-0.2 lux, but their Xcam is colored and as most
color camera it has VERY high lux ranking thus render it useless at
night.
-- Tobert
<3kfA4.30420$hT2.187...@news1. rdc1.ct.home.com>,
"Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> wrote:
- -> Yes indeed. The US Department of Justice has experience with them.
> The DOJ has been confiscating these from distributors and
manufacturers.
> Surprise raids were carried out against several of the largest CCTV
distributors
> in the US. Inventory was taken and booked as evidence. United States
code
> doesn't allow anyone other than a police agency to even possess covert
cameras
> with audio listen-in capability. Using them to surreptitiously rd
audio
> without the knowledge and consent of everyone in the room without a
warrant is a
> felony.
> Suggested alternatives? Nope.
> BTW, your post appears to be an ad rather than a query. I'm not saying
it is
> such but it has the look about it.
> toebert wrote in message:
> :
> : I've been looking for a small size, low lux, and long distance
> : B/W security camera and came across this web site: xxx.snip.xxx
> : HRC-400A: 3-8mm lens, audio. 0.01 lux. 99$. indoor. WBC-300C:
> : 8-16mm lens, no audio. 0.2 lux. 149$. outdoor. These are tiny
> : cameras with low lux and have optional lenses. Does anyone have
> : experience with this company "spycameras" or any suggestion
> : regarding alternatives?

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Brian Karas   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation b...@futurestandard.com.doitsu (Brian Karas) - 2000/03/17 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation4bf5ddedcae26934" Individual Message Show original They appear to be selling the same VisionTech imported cameras that
SuperCircuits.com sells.  I've never heard of the site you mention,
but Supercircuits has an excellent reputation.
[] [] toeb...@my-deja.com was saying:
>I've been looking for a small size, low lux, and long distance B/W
>security camera and came across this web site: www.spycameras.com:
>HRC-400A: 3-8mm lens, audio. 0.01 lux. 99$. indoor.
>WBC-300C: 8-16mm lens, no audio. 0.2 lux. 149$. outdoor.
>These are tiny cameras with low lux and have optional lenses. Does
>anyone have experience with this company "spycameras" or any
>suggestion regarding alternatives?
>Thanks in advance!
>-- Tobert

--
Check out the CPU-XA, ELK, and HAI mailing lists and tech-tips at FutureStandard.com
Home Automation and DataComm FAQ's, equipment, and more available at: http://www.FutureStandard.com
Home Automation Auction: www.FutureStandard.com/auction .html

Brian Karas   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation b...@futurestandard.com.doitsu (Brian Karas) - 2000/03/17 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation22c6a6b0464ffce3" Individual Message Show original [] [] "Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> was saying:
>Yes indeed.  The US Department of Justice has experience with them.
>The DOJ has been confiscating these from distributors and manufacturers.
>Surprise raids were carried out against several of the largest CCTV distributors
>in the US.  Inventory was taken and booked as evidence.  United States code
>doesn't allow anyone other than a police agency to even possess covert cameras
>with audio listen-in capability.  

As it was explained to me by a major camera importer, and another very
large reseller, this only applies to the disguised camera's
(clock-radio cams, etc).  The PC board cameras aren't "covert" unless
the end-user installs them specifically in a covert locations.
--
- -Check out the CPU-XA, ELK, and HAI mailing lists and tech-tips at FutureStandard.com
Home Automation and DataComm FAQ's, equipment, and more available at: http://www.FutureStandard.com
Home Automation Auction: www.FutureStandard.com/auction .html


toebert   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation toeb...@my-deja.com - 2000/03/17 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automatione39343e170a72b30" Individual Message Show original Hi Brian,
Indeed I almost missed this web site! Their web site is not well
designed. When I went to their web site
http://www.supercircuits.com/s tart_monochrome.html two days ago, I saw
only three B/W cameras and left in a hurry. After ived your
reply, I checked their web site again, there is a small line says "List
all Monochrome cameras", all the goodies were in there. I think they
should at least highlight the small print. They could have lost a lot of
business due to this small mistake.
I think the number one rule in web page design should be "Make the
most important information VISIBLE". But they hide it real well.
Thanks!
-- Tobert
<38d38dad.130358...@news.telew eb.net>,
- -b...@futurestandard.com.doitsu (Brian Karas) wrote:
> They appear to be selling the same VisionTech imported cameras that
> SuperCircuits.com sells. I've never heard of the site you mention,
> but Supercircuits has an excellent reputation.
> [] [] toeb...@my-deja.com was saying:
> >I've been looking for a small size, low lux, and long distance B/W
> >security camera and came across this web site: www.spycameras.com:
> >HRC-400A: 3-8mm lens, audio. 0.01 lux. 99$. indoor.
> >WBC-300C: 8-16mm lens, no audio. 0.2 lux. 149$. outdoor.
> >These are tiny cameras with low lux and have optional lenses. Does
> >anyone have experience with this company "spycameras" or any
> >suggestion regarding alternatives?
> >Thanks in advance!
> >-- Tobert
> --
> Check out the CPU-XA, ELK, and HAI mailing lists and tech-tips at
FutureStandard.com
> Home Automation and DataComm FAQ's, equipment, and more available at:
http://www.FutureStandard.com
> Home Automation Auction: www.FutureStandard.com/auction .html

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Robert L Bass   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation "Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> - 2000/03/17 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation96b9f728d63c87cf" Individual Message Show original The HRC-400 series are pin-hole cameras.  They are designed specifically for
discreet surveillance.  If you get caught with one you may wind up with an
expensive federal case.  They are not just confiscating them.  Concerned about a
camera that I needed to return, I spoke to a DOJ attorney by phone.  I was
informed that they intend to prosecute people who use these discreet cameras
with audio.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==========================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-561-5210 fax
alarm...@home.com
==========================>
Brian Karas <b...@futurestandard.com.doits u> wrote in message

news:38d48e84.130573360@news.teleweb.net...
: [] [] "
- -Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> was saying:
: >Yes indeed.  The US Department of Justice has experience with them.
: >
: >The
 DOJ has been confiscating these from distributors and manufacturers.
: >Surprise raids were carried out against several of the largest CCTV
distributors
: >in the US.  Inventory was taken and booked as evidence.  United States code
: >doesn't allow anyone other than a police agency to even possess covert
cameras
: >with audio listen-in capability
.
:
: As it was explained to me by a major camera importer, and another very
: large reseller, this only applies to the disguised camera's
: (clock-radio cams, etc).  The PC board cameras aren't "covert" unless
: the end-user installs them specifically in a covert locations.
:
:
: --
: Check out the CPU-XA, ELK, and HAI mailing lists and tech
-tips at
FutureStandard.com
: Home Automation and DataComm FAQ's, equipment, and more available at:
http://www.FutureStandard.com
: Home Automation Auction: www.FutureStandard.com/auction .html


Robert L Bass   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation "Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> - 2000/03/17 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation2a08533c8f4efd76" Individual Message Show original There are plenty of discreet, small cameras which you can lawfully use.  Just
stay clear of the ones which also rd audio.  CSI-Speco's ProVideo division
lists dozens of cameras which are fine for this sort of application and will not
expose you to legal hassles.  Contact me if you want some information on them.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==========================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-561-5210 fax
alarm...@home.com

==========================>
<toeb...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8as4g1$jp6$1@nnrp1.deja.com...

:
:
:
- -All I need are two cameras that I can place behind the window or
: under the shingle to monitor the front entry and the street. I do not
: care to use the bulky standard CCTV camera or bullet camera that will
: make my house look like a prison. I'm looking for a camera that has
: pleasant appearance.
: I planned to hook up a pair of these kind of camera to X10's wireless
: video sender/iver. Then we can monitor the entry and front on TV.
: Other than the web site I mentioned, I also found
: www.internetelectronics.com has some very good products at reasonable
: price. Is there other store offer similar products at similar price
: range?
: X10 could have saved me all these trouble if they offer an optional
: B/W CCD camera with 0.01-0.2 lux, but their Xcam is colored and as most
: color camera it has VERY high lux ranking thus render it useless at
: night.
: -- Tobert
: <3kfA4.30420$hT2.187...@news1. rdc1.ct.home.com>,
: "Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> wrote:
: > Yes indeed. The US Department of Justice has experience with them.
: >
: > The
 DOJ has been confiscating these from distributors and
: manufacturers.
: > Surprise raids were carried out against several of the largest CCTV
: distributors
: > in the US. Inventory was taken and booked as evidence. United States
: code
: > doesn't allow anyone other than a police agency to even possess covert
: cameras
: > with audio listen-in capability. Using them to surreptitiously rd
: audio
: > without the knowledge and consent of everyone in the room without a
: warrant is a
: > felony.
: >
: > Suggested alternatives? Nope.
: >
: > BTW, your post appears to be an ad rather than a query. I'm not saying
: it is
: > such but it has the look about it.
: >
: > toebert wrote in message:
: > :
: > : I've been looking for a small size, low lux, and long distance
: > : B/W security camera and came across this web site
: xxx.snip.xxx
: > : HRC-400A: 3-8mm lens, audio. 0.01 lux. 99$. indoor. WBC
-300C:
: > : 8-16mm lens, no audio. 0.2 lux. 149$. outdoor. These are tiny
: > : cameras with low lux and have optional lenses. Does anyone have
: > : experience with this company "spycameras" or any suggestion
: > : regarding alternatives
?
: >
: >
:
:
: Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
: Before you buy

.

Bruce Robin   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation "Bruce Robin" <b...@whoever.com> - 2000/03/17 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation770613b850d4be90" Individual Message Show original Have a look at
http://www.globe-mart.com/elec tron/security/cameras/provideo /CVC-360B...
To see the Pro-Video Cameras. The difference between B&W and color is only 7
bucks ($148 & $155).  I put one in 2 weeks ago and I'm very pleased with the
color quality and low light vision.  The microphone is handy but I don't
really need it.  It comes in a white eyeball style weathertight case and
does not look at all imposing.  Globe-Mart shipped quickly and provided a
tracking number after ordering on-line.
- -<toeb...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8arotj$bk5$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hi,
> I've been looking for a small size, low lux, and long distance B/W
> security camera and came across this web site: www.spycameras.com:
> HRC-400A: 3-8mm lens, audio. 0.01 lux. 99$. indoor.
> WBC-300C: 8-16mm lens, no audio. 0.2 lux. 149$. outdoor.
> These are tiny cameras with low lux and have optional lenses. Does
> anyone have experience with this company "spycameras" or any
> suggestion regarding alternatives?
> Thanks in advance!
> -- Tobert
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.


toebert   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation toeb...@my-deja.com - 2000/03/17 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation89f732c8b41da9d9" Individual Message Show original Hi Robert,
It is indeed a good looking (ball-shape) color camera rated at .3
lux. A rare combination with affordable price. It is just right for my
home security purpose. Many thanks for the suggeation!
-- Tobert
<JDhA4.30440$hT2.189...@news1. rdc1.ct.home.com>,
"Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> wrote:
- -> There are plenty of discreet, small cameras which you can lawfully
use. Just
> stay clear of the ones which also rd audio. CSI-Speco's ProVideo
division
> lists dozens of cameras which are fine for this sort of application
and will not
> expose you to legal hassles. Contact me if you want some information
on them.
> --
> Regards,
> Robert L Bass
> ==========================>
> Bass Home Electronics
> The Online DIY Alarm Store
> http://www.Bass-Home.com
> 80 Bentwood Road
> West Hartford, CT 06107
> 860-561-9542 voice
> 860-561-5210 fax
> alarm...@home.com
> ==========================>
> <toeb...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8as4g1$jp6

$...@
- -nnrp1.deja.com...
> :
> :
> : All I need are two cameras that I can place behind the window or
> : under the shingle to monitor the front entry and the street. I do
not
> : care to use the bulky standard CCTV camera or bullet camera that
will
> : make my house look like a prison. I'm looking for a camera that has
> : pleasant appearance.
> : I planned to hook up a pair of these kind of camera to X10's
wireless
> : video sender/iver. Then we can monitor the entry and front on
TV.
> : Other than the web site I mentioned, I also found
> : www.internetelectronics.com has some very good products at
reasonable
> : price. Is there other store offer similar products at similar price
> : range?
> : X10 could have saved me all these trouble if they offer an optional
> : B/W CCD camera with 0.01-0.2 lux, but their Xcam is colored and as
most
> : color camera it has VERY high lux ranking thus render it useless at
> : night.
> : -- Tobert
> : <3kfA4.30420$hT2.187...@news1. rdc1.ct.home.com>,
> : "Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> wrote:
> : > Yes indeed. The US Department of Justice has experience with them.
> : >
> : > The DOJ has been confiscating these from distributors and
> : manufacturers.
> : > Surprise raids were carried out against several of the largest
CCTV
> : distributors
> : > in the US. Inventory was taken and booked as evidence. United
States
> : code
> : > doesn't allow anyone other than a police agency to even possess
covert
> : cameras
> : > with audio listen-in capability. Using them to surreptitiously
rd
> : audio
> : > without the knowledge and consent of everyone in the room without
a
> : warrant is a
> : > felony.
> : >
> : > Suggested alternatives? Nope.
> : >
> : > BTW, your post appears to be an ad rather than a query. I'm not
saying
> : it is
> : > such but it has the look about it.
> : >
> : > toebert wrote in message:
> : > :
> : > : I've been looking for a small size, low lux, and long distance
> : > : B/W security camera and came across this web site: xxx.snip.xxx
> : > : HRC-400A: 3-8mm lens, audio. 0.01 lux. 99$. indoor. WBC-300C:
> : > : 8-16mm lens, no audio. 0.2 lux. 149$. outdoor. These are tiny
> : > : cameras with low lux and have optional lenses. Does anyone have
> : > : experience with this company "spycameras" or any suggestion
> : > : regarding alternatives?
> : >
> : >
> :
> :
> : Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> : Before you buy.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

toebert   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation toeb...@my-deja.com - 2000/03/17 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automationeaf627dfd3f99df8" Individual Message Show original Hi Bruce,
Mr. Robert Bass has also mmended this camera for me (and home
owners in general I think). It looks like a winner in look, lux, and
price to me. Wish there will be more manufacturers design products like
this with home use in mind.
Thanks!
-- Tobert
<YjiA4.12939$%85.115...@hnlnew sr1.hawaii.rr.com>,
- -"Bruce Robin" <b...@whoever.com> wrote:
> Have a look at
> http://www.globe-mart.com/elec tron/security/cameras/provideo /CVC-360B...
> To see the Pro-Video Cameras. The difference between B&W and color is
only 7
> bucks ($148 & $155). I put one in 2 weeks ago and I'm very pleased
with the
> color quality and low light vision. The microphone is handy but I
don't
> really need it. It comes in a white eyeball style weathertight case
and
> does not look at all imposing. Globe-Mart shipped quickly and
provided a
> tracking number after ordering on-line.
> <toeb...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8arotj$bk5

$...@
- -nnrp1.deja.com...
> > Hi,
> > I've been looking for a small size, low lux, and long distance B/W
> > security camera and came across this web site: www.spycameras.com:
> > HRC-400A: 3-8mm lens, audio. 0.01 lux. 99$. indoor.
> > WBC-300C: 8-16mm lens, no audio. 0.2 lux. 149$. outdoor.
> > These are tiny cameras with low lux and have optional lenses. Does
> > anyone have experience with this company "spycameras" or any
> > suggestion regarding alternatives?
> > Thanks in advance!
> > -- Tobert
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy

.

Brian Karas   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation b...@futurestandard.com.doitsu (Brian Karas) - 2000/03/17 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation78050a93bdeed6a8" Individual Message Show original [] [] toeb...@my-deja.com was saying:
>All I need are two cameras that I can place behind the window or
>under the shingle to monitor the front entry and the street. I do not
>care to use the bulky standard CCTV camera or bullet camera that will
>make my house look like a prison. I'm looking for a camera that has
>pleasant appearance.
I

 have 3 bullet cameras on the outside of my house.  Although this is
a useless wager in Usenet sense, I'd give you $100 for every camera
that you can spot on my house.
It's just as easy (easier, IMO) to hide a bullet camera as it is to
hide the camera you mention.
>price. Is there other store offer similar products at similar price
>range?

Yes, www.supercircuits.com
--
- -Check out the CPU-XA, ELK, and HAI mailing lists and tech-tips at FutureStandard.com
Home Automation and DataComm FAQ's, equipment, and more available at: http://www.FutureStandard.com
Home Automation Auction: www.FutureStandard.com/auction .html


Theodore M. Seeber   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation "Theodore M. Seeber" <seeb...@teleport.com> - 2000/03/17 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation3017c5d050d7b76b" Individual Message Show original This sounds HIGHLY unconstituional to me....especially if the use is in a
private residence.  If the use was in a public building, then that's
another thing entirely, but in a private residence they've got the problem
of having to prosecute for several of the videos sent in to America's
Funniest Home Videos.
Big Brother oversteps the constitution quite regularly now.  Perhaps it's
time to call for a new Continental Congress to write a new one.
Ted
- -On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Robert L Bass wrote:
> The HRC-400 series are pin-hole cameras.  They are designed specifically for
> discreet surveillance.  If you get caught with one you may wind up with an
> expensive federal case.  They are not just confiscating them.  Concerned about a
> camera that I needed to return, I spoke to a DOJ attorney by phone.  I was
> informed that they intend to prosecute people who use these discreet cameras
> with audio.
> --
> Regards,
> Robert L Bass
> ==========================>
> Bass Home Electronics
> The Online DIY Alarm Store
> http://www.Bass-Home.com
> 80 Bentwood Road
> West Hartford, CT 06107
> 860-561-9542 voice
> 860-561-5210 fax
> alarm...@home.com
> ==========================>
> Brian Karas <b...@futurestandard.com.doits u> wrote in message
> news:38d48e84.130573360@news.teleweb.net...
> : [] [] "Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> was saying:
> : >Yes indeed.  The US Department of Justice has experience with them.
> : >
> : >The DOJ has been confiscating these from distributors and manufacturers.
> : >Surprise raids were carried out against several of the largest CCTV
> distributors
> : >in the US.  Inventory was taken and booked as evidence.  United States code
> : >doesn't allow anyone other than a police agency to even possess covert
> cameras
> : >with audio listen-in capability.
> :
> : As it was explained to me by a major camera importer, and another very
> : large reseller, this only applies to the disguised camera's
> : (clock-radio cams, etc).  The PC board cameras aren't "covert" unless
> : the end-user installs them specifically in a covert locations.
> :
> :
> : --
> : Check out the CPU-XA, ELK, and HAI mailing lists and tech-tips at
> FutureStandard.com
> : Home Automation and DataComm FAQ's, equipment, and more available at:
> http://www.FutureStandard.com
> : Home Automation Auction: www.FutureStandard.com/auction .html

On this day, the Feast Day of St. Patrick of Ireland
http://www.catholic.org/saints /saints/patrick.html
mailto:seeb...@teleport.com
mailto:seeberc...@bigfoot.com- emergency only 100 char limit
On emergency address, remove everything past
.com...This will send to my cell phone, my work, and my home.
http://www.teleport.com/~seebe rt/
Je suis Marxiste, tendance Groucho.

Robert L Bass   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation "Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> - 2000/03/17 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automationa992ce865dc86526" Individual Message Show original Nice talk.  You can smoke crack cocaine in your own home, too.  But if the feds
find out you may not like the outcome.
Dave <no@mail> wrote in message

news:bl84ds06vmekv5i2nqnd34171gba9dpn6v@4ax.com...
: On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:51:11 GMT, "
Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> wrote:
:
: >Yes indeed.  The US Department of Justice has experience with them.
: >
: >The
 DOJ has been confiscating these from distributors and manufacturers.
: >Surprise raids were carried out against several of the largest CCTV
distributors
: >in the US.  Inventory was taken and booked as evidence.  United States code
: >doesn't allow anyone other than a police agency to even possess covert
cameras
: >with audio listen-in capability.  Using them to surreptitiously rd audio
: >without the knowledge and consent of everyone in the room without a warrant
is a
: >felony

.
:
: Bullshit.  Period.  You can use any such camera for your own security system
: in your own home for any reason.
:
: Troll.

Robert L Bass   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation "Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> - 2000/03/17 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automationc9e6276714832620" Individual Message Show original I at first thought it was ridiculous.  In fact, I didn't believe rumors about
the raids when they hit the warehouses.  However, the law is clear.
BTW, the basis of this law is supposedly to protect the constitutional rights of
those who you might wish to rd.
There's another matter to consider here.  The proposed installation (from the
start of this thread) was for exterior monitoring.  The outside world is
considered "public."  It is not the same as your living room.  I don't know for
sure, but my impression is that the law does not keep you from rding the
nanny kicking the baby.  The outside world is another matter entirely.  People
standing in a public place have a "reasonable expectation" that their
conversations will not be rded.
There are a growing number of state laws covering this area as well.  But the
federal statute goes so far as to make it illegal even to ship concealed cameras
with audio rding capabilities.  I had to remove the microphones from several
sample cameras and sent them in a separate shipment from the cameras which I
returned to the manufacturer.  This was the suggested procedure from a DOJ
attorney with whom I spoke.
--
- -Regards,
Robert L Bass
==========================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http
://www
.Bass
-Home
.com
80
 Bentwood
 Road
West
 Hartford
, CT
 06107
860
-561
-9542
 voice
860
-561
-5210
 fax
alarm
...@home
.com

==========================>
Theodore M. Seeber <seeb...@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.10003170829200.26267-100000@user2.teleport.com...
:
- -This sounds HIGHLY unconstituional to me....especially if the use is in a
: private residence.  If the use was in a public building, then that's
: another thing entirely, but in a private residence they've got the problem
: of having to prosecute for several of the videos sent in to America's
: Funniest Home Videos.
:
: Big Brother oversteps the constitution quite regularly now.  Perhaps it's
: time to call for a new Continental Congress to write a new one.
: Ted
:
: On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Robert L Bass wrote:
:
: > The HRC-400 series are pin-hole cameras.  They are designed specifically
 for
: > discreet surveillance.  If you get caught with one you may wind up with an
: > expensive federal case.  They are not just confiscating them.  Concerned
about a
: > camera that I needed to return, I spoke to a DOJ attorney by phone.  I was
: > informed that they intend to prosecute people who use these discreet cameras
: > with audio.
: >
: > --
: >
: > Regards,
: > Robert L Bass
: >
: > ==========================>
: > Bass Home Electronics
: > The Online DIY Alarm Store

: > http://www.Bass-Home.com
: > 80 Bentwood Road
: > West Hartford, CT
- -06107
: > 860-561-9542 voice
: > 860-561-5210 fax
: > alarm...@home.com
: > ==========================>
: >
: >
: > Brian Karas <b...@futurestandard.com.doits u> wrote in message
: > news:38d48e84.130573360@news.teleweb.net...
: > : [] [] "Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> was saying:
: > : >Yes indeed.  The US
 Department of Justice has experience with them.
: > : >
: > : >The
 DOJ has been confiscating these from distributors and manufacturers.
: > : >Surprise raids were carried out against several of the largest CCTV
: > distributors
: > : >in the US.  Inventory was taken and booked as evidence.  United States
code
: > : >doesn't allow anyone other than a police agency to even possess covert
: > cameras
: > : >with audio listen-in capability
.
: > :
: > : As it was explained to me by a major camera importer, and another very
: > : large reseller, this only applies to the disguised camera's
: > : (clock-radio cams, etc).  The PC board cameras aren't "covert" unless
: > : the end-user installs them specifically in a covert locations.
: > :
: > :
: > : --
: > : Check out the CPU-XA, ELK, and HAI mailing lists and tech
-tips at
: > FutureStandard.com
: > : Home Automation and DataComm FAQ's, equipment, and more available at:
: > http://www.FutureStandard.com
: > : Home Automation Auction: www.FutureStandard.com/auction .html
: >
: >
: >
: >
:
: On this day, the Feast Day of St. Patrick of Ireland
: http://www.catholic.org/saints /saints/patrick.html
: mailto:seeb...@teleport.com
: mailto:seeberc...@bigfoot.com- emergency only 100 char limit
: On emergency address, remove everything past
: .com...This will send to my cell phone, my work, and my home.
: http://www.teleport.com/~seebe rt/
: Je suis Marxiste, tendance Groucho

.
:
:

Theodore M. Seeber   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation "Theodore M. Seeber" <seeb...@teleport.com> - 2000/03/17 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation71226d8910201f19" Individual Message Show original On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Robert L Bass wrote:
> I at first thought it was ridiculous.  In fact, I didn't believe rumors about
> the raids when they hit the warehouses.  However, the law is clear.
> BTW, the basis of this law is supposedly to protect the constitutional rights of
> those who you might wish to rd.

By violating the rights of others?  Personally, I think we need a test
case to appeal all the way up to the Supreme Court, at the very least.
> There's another matter to consider here.  The proposed installation (from the
> start of this thread) was for exterior monitoring.  The outside world is
> considered "public."  It is not the same as your living room.  
> I don't know for
> sure, but my impression is that the law does not keep you from rding the
> nanny kicking the baby.  The outside world is another matter entirely.  People
> standing in a public place have a "reasonable expectation" that their
> conversations will not be rded.

That is reasonably understandible, though what would it do to front-door
video intercoms?
> There are a growing number of state laws covering this area as well.  But the
> federal statute goes so far as to make it illegal even to ship concealed
> cameras
> with audio rding capabilities.  I had to remove the microphones from
> several
> sample cameras and sent them in a separate shipment from the cameras which I
> returned to the manufacturer.  This was the suggested procedure from a DOJ
> attorney with whom I spoke.

If anybody's willing to back me with attorney fees, I'm willing to become
the subject of a test case.
It's quite obvious to me that the DOJ is oversteping it's bounds here.
Ted
On this day, the Feast Day of St. Patrick of Ireland
http://www.catholic.org/saints /saints/patrick.html
mailto:seeb...@teleport.com
mailto:seeberc...@bigfoot.com- emergency only 100 char limit
On emergency address, remove everything past
.com...This will send to my cell phone, my work, and my home.
http://www.teleport.com/~seebe rt/
Je suis Marxiste, tendance Groucho

.

Dan Wright   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation "Dan Wright" <star.w...@erols.com> - 2000/03/17 Subject: Covert Mics was Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation50f3d2fdcd6309f5" Individual Message Show original While I share many of the sentiments of outrage, Robert Bass is not being a
troll, this has indeed been happening.  Raids have been made and Federal
charges filed.  One of the places raided was Ramsey Electronics
http://www.ramseyelectronics.c om/ which is a long time educational kit
supplier to the Boy Scouts.  (I am dead serious)
For those who want more detail check out http://www.thisiswrong.com/
- Dan Wright

wrybread   Mar 17 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation wrybread <whatyoulookinNOwhS...@hotmail.com.in valid> - 2000/03/17 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation5cba7cf6e9e92732" Individual Message Show original > If anybody's willing to back me with attorney fees,
> I'm willing to become the subject of a test case.
> It's quite obvious to me that the DOJ is oversteping
> it's bounds here. Ted

I think the only person overstepping any bounds is Robert.  The
bounds of truth and reason, that is.  Note that his email
address is alarm...@home.com.  And an alarmist he is being.
I don't mean this as a flame, just that I think he's a little on
the paranoid side.  If these cameras are both as illegal and as
prosecuted as he claims, then why does x10.com plaster their site
with the silly little x10 camera, which has both audio and video?
Even if concealed audio/video cameras such as those are illegal,
which I *strongly* doubt they are (at what point does a Sony
Handycam become illegal?), then it's at least unprosecuted.
Of course, what you do with the camera might be illegal.  I guess
rding people without their consent is illegal in some
situations in some states, but that doesn't make selling
dictaphones illegal.
So mellow out, breathe deeply, read a little less Tom Clancey.
whatyouloo...@hotmail.com
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

Robert L Bass   Mar 18 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation "Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> - 2000/03/18 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation0d987991b15a2b1c" Individual Message Show original Theodore M. Seeber wrote:

:
:
Robert L Bass wrote:
:
: > I at first thought it was ridiculous.  In fact, I didn't believe
 rumors
about
: > the raids when they hit the warehouses.  However, the law is clear.
: >
: > BTW, the basis of this law is supposedly to protect the constitutional
rights of
: > those who you might wish to rd
.
:
: By violating the rights of others?  Personally, I think we need a test
: case to appeal all the way up to the Supreme Court, at the very least

.
Feel free to do so.  It's kind of expensive, though.  And if you lose the price
increases geometrically.
: >
There's another matter to consider here.  The proposed installation (from
the
: > start of this thread) was for exterior monitoring.  The outside world is
: > considered "public."  It is not the same as your living room.
: > I don't know for
: > sure, but my impression is that the law does not keep you from rding the
: > nanny kicking the baby.  The outside world is another matter entirely.
People
: > standing in a public place have a "reasonable expectation" that their
: > conversations will not be rded
.
:
: That is reasonably understandible, though what would it do to front-door
: video intercoms

?
Nothing.  These are usually not concealed and they usually don't rd.  If the
microphone is visible such that a "reasonable person" would realize it is
operating, there's no surreptitious rding.  Just how visible it needs to be
to satisfy the law is a matter for the finder of fact (jury).  IANAL but I try
to keep abreast of laws which affect my industry.  There has been some
discussion of this one in the trade publications lately.  I'm sure that more
will surface as the various prosecutions progress.
: >
There are a growing number of state laws covering this area as well.  But
the
: > federal statute goes so far as to make it illegal even to ship concealed
: > cameras
: > with audio rding capabilities.  I had to remove the microphones from
: > several
: > sample cameras and sent them in a separate shipment from the cameras which I
: > returned to the manufacturer.  This was the suggested procedure from a DOJ
: > attorney with whom I spoke
.
:
: If anybody's willing to back me with attorney fees, I'm willing to become
: the subject of a test case

.
This could easily be a 6-figure tab.
:
It's quite obvious to me that the DOJ is oversteping it's bounds here

.
Perhaps they are.  I'm just not ready to take them on over an issue which is of
little consequence to me personally.  Best of luck to you.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==========================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-561-5210 fax
alarm...@home.com

==========================>

Robert L Bass   Mar 18 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation "Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> - 2000/03/18 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automationb29cc691cdd2cb34" Individual Message Show original Please don't take this as a flame, sir.  It is not intended as such.
You accuse me of being paranoid and of stretching the truth.  However, this is a
matter which has been widely reported in the press.  I suggest that before you
post more comments about my psyche you first investigate to determine if I'm in
error.  As it happens I didn't believe the story when I first heard it either.
I called one of my suppliers and was informed that they had indeed been raided
by the DOJ.  Do I agree with the law as it is written and as it is being
enforced?  No.  But it is indeed the law and there are current federal
prosecutions under way.
Check this out more thoroughly.  When you find out that I spoke the truth it is
hoped that you will post a retraction, thereby earning a great deal of respect.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==========================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-561-5210 fax
alarm...@home.com

==========================>
wrybread <whatyoulookinNOwhS...@hotmail .com.invalid> wrote in message

news:0d33c793.07987234@usw-ex0103-086.remarq.com...
: >
- -If anybody's willing to back me with attorney fees,
: > I'm willing to become the subject of a test case.
: >
: > It's quite obvious to me that the DOJ is oversteping
: > it's bounds here. Ted
:
: I think the only person overstepping any bounds is Robert.  The
: bounds of truth and reason, that is.  Note that his email
: address is alarm...@home.com.  And an alarmist he is being.
:
: I don't mean this as a flame, just that I think he's a little on
: the paranoid side.  If these cameras are both as illegal and as
: prosecuted as he claims, then why does x10.com plaster their site
: with the silly little x10 camera, which has both audio and video?
:
: Even if concealed audio/video cameras such as those are illegal,
: which I *strongly* doubt they are (at what point does a Sony
: Handycam become illegal?), then it's at least unprosecuted.
:
: Of course, what you do with the camera might be illegal.  I guess
: rding people without their consent is illegal in some
: situations in some states, but that doesn't make selling
: dictaphones illegal.
:
: So mellow out, breathe deeply, read a little less Tom Clancey.
:
:
: whatyouloo...@hotmail.com
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
: * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
: The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free

!
:

Walt LG   Mar 18 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation wal...@aol.com (Walt LG) - 2000/03/18 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation2b4c9f974aac19f2" Individual Message Show original Along these same lines:
Fact: a murder was committed in Florida several years ago.
Fact: the murder, including the killer's identity, was rded on audio tape.
Fact: the tape was inadmisable as evidence because the rding was illegal.
Personally, I feel that anything I am entitled to hear or see, I am entitled to
remember accurately. If I choose to use electronic aids to my memory, that is
my choice. I may no be able to introduce the tapes (or whatever) as primary
evidence, but I should be free to introduce them to corroborate my testimony.
In the above incident, I feel that no one has a right to an expectation of
privacy when committing murder.

Mr So and So   Mar 19 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation rumyb...@aol.com (Mr So and So) - 2000/03/19 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automationce0ca607ba8c9497" Individual Message Show original That reminds me of a guy who killed someone on his porch and was video taped by
his own CCTV camera!
- ->Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera
> wal...@aol.com  (Walt LG)
> 03/18/2000 8:38 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20000318083830.13549.00000... @ng-bj1.aol.com>
>Along these same lines:
>Fact: a murder was committed in Florida several years ago.
>Fact: the murder, including the killer's identity, was rded on audio
>tape.
>Fact: the tape was inadmisable as evidence because the rding was illegal.
>Personally, I feel that anything I am entitled to hear or see, I am entitled
>to
>remember accurately. If I choose to use electronic aids to my memory, that is
>my choice. I may no be able to introduce the tapes (or whatever) as primary
>evidence, but I should be free to introduce them to corroborate my testimony.
>In the above incident, I feel that no one has a right to an expectation of
>privacy when committing murder.
>>>>>> NEWS YOU SHOULD KNOW <<<<<<

Cinn. OH woman arrested for putting money in parking meters for people.
Genetically changed foods were NOT tested!  Testing is done on us!
Gov claims never fired a shot at Waco!
- ->>> Wake up people!


Robert L Bass   Mar 19 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation "Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> - 2000/03/19 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation9a728d588878bd8d" Individual Message Show original There was a camera in full view which rded a hold-up and murder a few years
ago.  If I ll corly, the police needed corroborating testimony beyond
the video tape.  They gnized the perpetrator, a regular crumb who they had
arrested before.  There were two cameras on the rding, one showing the
robbery / shooting and the other showing the perp entering the store.  The cops
pulled the guy in and showed him a still of him entering the door.  They asked
him what he was doing there and he said he had gone there to buy cigarettes.
Asked to swear that was all he had done, he signed a statement to that effect.
The police now had their corroborating testimony.  He was convicted of felony
murder.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==========================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-561-5210 fax
alarm...@home.com

==========================>
Mr So and So <rumyb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000319010722.15531.00005972@ng-de1.aol.com...
:
- -That reminds me of a guy who killed someone on his porch and was video taped
by
: his own CCTV camera!
:
: >Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera
: > wal...@aol.com  (Walt LG)
: > 03/18/2000 8:38 AM Eastern Standard Time
: >Message-id: <20000318083830.13549.00000... @ng-bj1.aol.com>
: >
: >Along these same lines:
: >Fact: a murder was committed in Florida several
 years ago.
: >Fact: the murder, including the killer's identity, was rded on audio
: >tape.
: >Fact: the tape was inadmisable as evidence because the rding was illegal.
: >
: >Personally, I feel that anything I am entitled to hear or see, I am entitled
: >to
: >remember accurately. If I choose to use electronic aids to my memory, that is
: >my choice. I may no be able to introduce the tapes (or whatever) as primary
: >evidence, but I should be free to introduce them to corroborate my testimony.
: >
: >In the above incident, I feel that no one has a right to an expectation of
: >privacy when committing murder
.
: >
:
: >>>>>> NEWS YOU SHOULD KNOW <<<<<<
: Cinn. OH woman arrested for putting money in parking meters for people.
: Genetically changed foods were NOT tested!  Testing is done on us!
: Gov claims never fired a shot at Waco!
: >>> Wake up people

!
:

wrybread   Mar 21 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation wrybread <whatyoulookinNOwhS...@hotmail.com.in valid> - 2000/03/21 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation367f1b7f5f64b63d" Individual Message Show original As I said, I meant no offence, I was just making the point that
these things are sold openly all over the web and in "spy
stores", which would lead me to believe that your warnings are a
little on the alarmist side.
*
Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free

!

Robert L Bass   Mar 22 2000, 12:00 am     Newsgroups: comp.home.automation "Robert L Bass" <alarm...@home.com> - 2000/03/22 Subject: Re: Small size, low lux camera Reply to Author Forward Print comp.home.automation47d8b2310977e773" Individual Message Show original No offense taken, friend.  But there really are a bunch of people in DOJ who are
filing offenses, complete with criminal charges, over this very issue.  The fact
that a lot of folks are doing something is no defense.  "But your honor, I was
just staying with the traffic.  They were *all* doing 80 mph.  :)
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==========================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-561-5210 fax
alarm...@home.com
==========================>
wrybread <whatyoulookinNOwhS...@hotmail .com.invalid> wrote in message
news

:068db8ef.03a4099c@usw-ex0103- 086.remarq.com...
:
As I said, I meant no offence, I was just making the point that
: these things are sold openly all over the web and in "spy
: stores", which would lead me to believe that your warnings are a
: little on the alarmist side

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